Ranking on AI founder shares GEO playbook: How to get AI to recommend your SaaS and drive real conversions
Success is measured by one thing: real sign-ups and paying customers. The core strategy boils down to one rule: stop writing "What is X" and start targeting "Best X."
- Traditional SEO competes for a spot in Google's ten blue links. GEO competes for the few recommendations AI names when a user asks ChatGPT. If you're not named, you don't exist.
- Educational content like "What is X" is dead. The only queries left worth targeting are high-intent terms like "Best X" or "A vs. B"—searches made by people ready to buy.
- AI-driven traffic accounts for just 0.5% of total visits, yet delivers 12.1% of sign-ups—a conversion rate 23x that of organic search (misstated as 17x in the interview).
- However, click-through rates on AI answer links are only around 1%, meaning you should multiply your chatgpt.com row in GA4 by 100 to estimate actual impression volume.
- The full 6-step playbook: Build a clean, crawlable site → Mine high-intent queries → Write comparison posts → Target source sites AI already cites → Leverage third-party platforms → Measure only sign-ups and revenue. Complete with copy-paste prompts, outreach scripts, and real pricing.
- Three wasted efforts: llms.txt (97% of 137k sites were never crawled by any bot), fixing technical SEO while ignoring content, and buying "product+review.com" domains to stack fake positive reviews.
The difference between GEO and SEO
Tanya van Gastel, founder of Ranking on AI, recently sat down with Florian Darroman to dissect her Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) strategy: how to get your SaaS actively cited and recommended by AI models like ChatGPT and Claude—and how to convert those mentions into actual sign-ups and revenue.
What is Ranking on AI?
Ranking on AI is a specialized consultancy and service platform focused exclusively on Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) for SaaS companies. It was founded by Tanya van Gastel.
If traditional SEO (Ranking on Google) helps your site land on page one of Google's ten blue links, Ranking on AI does something fundamentally different: ensuring AI models prioritize and recommend your product when users ask questions in ChatGPT, Claude, Perplexity, or Google AI Overviews.
Best CRM tools
Returns 10 blue links; user clicks through to compare
Recommend 3 CRMs for small teams
Returns a direct answer naming just 3 products
Ten blue links offer ten chances for comparison. An AI recommendation names only a few, and users rarely look further once they get their answer. If you are not named, you do not exist.
Tanya uses "AI visibility" in the interview to describe the same concept as Generative Engine Optimization (GEO). The terms are used interchangeably below.
- SaaS Only
- No other verticals. Handles strategy, roadmaps, and execution as an outsourced growth team.
- Clients
- Suno (AI music generation), Cal.com (open-source scheduling), HappyRobot, Akiflow, and more. Most have raised $10M–$100M, alongside bootstrapped solo developers.
- Background
- Former founder of an AI photo SaaS ($30 one-time fee) built entirely via SEO and exited for six figures.
Two core problems it solves
Fewer users—especially software buyers—are clicking through traditional search results. Instead, they ask ChatGPT directly: "Recommend 3 CRMs for small teams" or "Is Software A better than Software B?"
These users are already at the bottom of the buying funnel. If AI leaves you out of the answer, you lose high-intent buyers without even knowing it.
Getting mentioned by AI and sharing a screenshot produces zero revenue. Their work focuses on two fronts: decoding how LLMs extract information from the web, and restructuring SaaS content to penetrate the source sites and rankings AI relies on.
The ultimate success metric is real sign-ups and paying customers—down to tracking which specific article drove revenue. This closed loop is the central theme of the conversation.
What this one-hour interview covers
The breakdown covers seven key areas, moving from high-impact priorities to total wastes of effort. The core actionable workflows are highlighted in the middle sections.
Let's start with the fundamental question: Is GEO actually worth your time?
AI drives low traffic volume, but converts 23x better than organic search
Her core pitch for solo developers centers on compounding returns. Paid ads stop delivering the moment you stop paying. Content published today continues driving traffic next year, making it the highest-margin acquisition channel available.
Her second point is psychological: AI recommendations feel like word-of-mouth advice from a colleague. Users who rely on ChatGPT or Claude daily have built trust with the tool. When it suggests a product organically, users click—a completely different dynamic than seeing an ad.
Tanya cited Ahrefs data claiming AI traffic converts 17x better than standard Google clicks. She actually understated the figure. Ahrefs' official blog reported a 23x gap: over a 30-day period, AI search accounted for just 0.5% of site visits but generated 12.1% of sign-ups. That 0.5% driving 12.1% is where the 23x multiplier comes from.
More important than conversion multipliers, however, is this reality: your analytics dashboard obscures how often you are recommended. A user journey from AI recommendation to recorded visit must pass through three distinct filters.
Her tactical recommendation: open GA4's Source/Medium report and multiply traffic numbers from chatgpt.com and claude.ai by 100 to estimate true brand impression volume. She remains skeptical of commercial AI rank trackers; because ChatGPT tailors answers to individual users, automated tools query via synthetic accounts and yield proxy data far removed from actual performance.
Educational "What is X" content is dead—focus solely on "Best X"
This was the most insight-packed section of the interview and her single most important recommendation. Consider how the same search intent plays out across two eras:
- User searches "What is an AI proofreading tool?"
- Google returns ten blue links.
- User clicks the top link.
- That site happens to offer an AI proofreading tool.
- User asks ChatGPT "What is an AI proofreading tool?"
- AI explains the concept directly in line.
- The interaction ends there.
- No link provided; no link needed.
LLMs have absorbed virtually all informational query traffic. Publishing educational content is a dead end. What remains?
Strip away the jargon and the principle is simple: What does someone search when they are ready to buy? A prospective buyer looking for SEO software doesn't search "What is SEO"—they search terms like these:
The first four represent high-intent BOFU terms worth targeting. The last is an informational query—skip it.
Think of shopping mall visitors: window shoppers versus customers holding cash and checking price tags. BOFU strategy targets only the second group. You don't need to educate them on the category—you just need to appear at the moment they compare options.
Targeting BOFU content offers a dual benefit: these exact same high-intent queries rank on both Google and ChatGPT. Creating them once targets both search engines and AI models simultaneously.
A zero-budget blueprint for bootstrapped developers
When host Florian asked what a zero-budget developer should do in Week 1, Tanya outlined a 5-step, zero-cost blueprint that can be executed immediately.
Set up a headless or standard CMS to publish articles without coding. She recommends Ghost hosted on a subdomain like blog.yourdomain.com. For more mature stacks, she suggests Payload for its Model Context Protocol (MCP) support, allowing Claude to read your content repository directly.
Fact check: Tanya mentioned Ghost starts "free, then about $15/month." Ghost Cloud offers no free tier; the lowest Starter plan costs $18/month (billed annually) for up to 1,000 subscribers. The free version requires self-hosting on your own server.
Skip expensive SEO keyword tools and search volume analysis. Copy your landing page copy into Claude and ask it to extract relevant search terms. It will typically output 100+ options; ask it to filter down to the 5–10 most relevant.
Here is the text from my landing page: [Paste full landing page content] Please identify bottom-of-the-funnel (BOFU) keywords that potential buyers might search, such as listicles and comparison articles. After generating the list, select the 5 to 10 most relevant keywords for my product.
While not high-level SEO, this provides an immediate starting point to establish your workflow. Do not obsess over keyword search volume initially—focus on publishing BOFU content first.
Continue in the same chat session with a single follow-up prompt.
Convert the keywords above into AI visibility prompts and create a structured content outline for each one.
She suggests combining human writing with AI generation. Once published, connect your domain to Google Search Console to confirm indexing. Unindexed content is invisible to search engines.
Follow this baseline optimization checklist while avoiding two counterproductive practices:
- Optimize meta titles and meta descriptions
- Include relevant images
- Add schema markupMachine-readable structured data embedded in web pages to inform search engines about pricing, ratings, and FAQs without parsing layout code.
- Add FAQ sections with FAQ schema markup
- Include author name, bio, and avatar on blog posts
- Create separate Markdown files for each post
- Build an llms.txt file (explained in the traps section)
Author metadata is essential. Both Google and LLMs evaluate content credibility using E-E-A-TExperience, Expertise, Authoritativeness, and Trustworthiness criteria used by search engines to score content reliability based on verified author credentials. signals. Clear author profiles ensure your blog presents verified human ownership.
Tanya shared a crucial detail: render authority signals as plain text rather than image logos. Major clients, key statistics, and value propositions must be readable text. While ChatGPT heavily weighs authority proof, image-based logo walls cannot be parsed by web crawlers.
For a free setup, link your domain to Google Analytics (GA4) to track referral channels like chatgpt.com and claude.ai in the Source/Medium report. You can ask Claude to verify your tracking setup.
Her critical point: track metrics down to sign-ups and paid conversions per blog post. High traffic volume is meaningless if it yields zero paying customers. Configure both sign-up and purchase events in Google Tag Manager.
For monitoring clicks and impressions, she recommends SEOgets over Search Console's UI. SEOgets offers a free tier, with paid Core plans starting at $39/month.
The 6-step playbook for getting AI to recommend your SaaS
The previous five steps form a baseline setup for new sites. However, getting AI models to proactively name your product requires off-site execution. Consolidating her full strategy yields a 6-step end-to-end playbook, where Steps 4 and 5 drive off-page impact.
Core principle: do not rely on client-side JavaScript to render primary content. Dynamically rendered AI-generated sites suffer poor crawler parsing and low indexation rates. Use established platforms like WordPress, Ghost, or Payload rather than custom CMS engines.
To inspect your site, use the AI Eyes Chrome extension to disable JavaScript. The resulting static HTML represents what AI crawlers see. A blank screen indicates parsing failure.
Technical crawlability is merely the first barrier. Engineering-minded founders often focus exclusively on technical SEO—site speed and clean markup—while neglecting content architecture.
The second layer is internal linking. Internal link mapping tools like Surfer SEO assist, but manual prompt-assisted mapping works well:
Analyze this CMS content repository, identify the main topic clusters, and provide an internal linking strategy formatted as a table. The table must include: Source URL, Target URL, Anchor Text, and exact insertion location.
Apply the generated mapping table by updating CMS internal links manually.
The third layer is topical authority. Publishing 500 interlinked articles on tennis establishes topical authority in sports. Publishing a single unlinked post on green tea will not rank, regardless of writing quality. Internal linking builds this baseline authority.
Even a highly optimized landing page with 500 programmatic pages will fail to rank without internal links, backlink profiles, and domain authority.
Extract high-intent queries using LLM prompts on your landing page content. Focus strictly on buyer intent: "Best CRM tools for small teams" or "Ahrefs vs. SEMrush" rather than informational queries like "What is CRM."
Combine human editorial input with AI drafting. Index published posts via Search Console and apply E-E-A-T optimization.
A key requirement: heavily illustrate comparison listicles with media. Users skim images rather than reading blocks of text. Embed product screenshots, UI walkthrough GIFs, and short videos across multiple posts.
This process—known as digital PR or link outreach—is the most vital and under-executed phase. When ChatGPT recommends products, it samples existing web listicles and ranking roundups. Rather than waiting for discovery, identify the exact source pages AI currently cites and secure inclusion.
Outreach emails can remain concise:
Hi, I saw your roundup article. Would you be open to adding my tool to the list?
If budget is unavailable, exchange placements using your own ranking listicles:
I'll feature your product in the #2 spot on my roundup post if you feature mine in #2 on yours. That spot is going to someone anyway—we might as well cross-promote.
For affiliate reviewers who earn commissions, offer complimentary extended access (12+ months) to incentivize favorable coverage. Leverage social posts, cross-promotions, or backlinks as negotiation assets.
Host Florian Darroman provided an affiliate publisher's perspective:
If I own a ranking roundup post and someone wants a higher placement, it comes down to commission rates. If the top brand pays 30% and you offer 40%, you get the top spot. Even for organic placements, higher payout wins.
Florian Darroman
Tanya added that affiliate partners evaluate overall yield rather than commission percentage alone. Demonstrating high conversion rates (e.g., 17% on BOFU traffic) proves total revenue potential.
While new domains take months to gain authority, publishing BOFU content on established third-party platforms ranks rapidly. Host Florian noted publishing listicles on Medium and LinkedIn that indexed in Google AI Overviews within 72 hours in low-competition niches.
YouTube currently presents the largest unexploited opportunity. Converting BOFU queries into video content allows rapid indexing in Google and ChatGPT video carousels. Thumbnail design should prioritize high-contrast logos, primary keywords, and brand names.
Both Google and ChatGPT feature video embeds prominently in search interfaces. Because few SaaS founders produce YouTube videos targeting BOFU queries, this channel remains uncrowded.
Furthermore, video completion rates are secondary; users frequently click description links immediately upon viewing.
High-Authority Third-Party Platforms
Platform rankings evolve every 6 months. Key current platforms include:
Capterra allows free basic listings, review replies, and badges; pay-per-click traffic requires a minimum $500/month spend ($2+/click). G2 offers a free basic tier, while Brand Starter plans cost $2,999 for Year 1 ($5,999/year thereafter). Note: G2 acquired Capterra's parent operations, consolidating both platforms.
Regarding long-tail keywords: "Best tennis SaaS" represents a short-tail term, whereas "Best tennis SaaS for players with tennis elbow" forms a specific long-tail buyer query.
AI Visibility Does Not Require High Domain Rating
Traditional SEO rarely ranks domains below DR 20. In contrast, AI models frequently cite low-authority blogs (DR 3–5) if content directly matches prompt intent.
Low-DR blog owners respond quickly to link exchange pitches, presenting accessible outreach opportunities.
Which AI Models to Target
Google AI Overviews is essential due to measurable referral links in analytics. ChatGPT accounts for over 70% of general consumer AI referral volume:
However, B2B referral distributions differ significantly:
This data aligns with her guidance: target ChatGPT for consumer B2C products due to its massive free user base. Prioritize Claude for B2B, developer, and technical audiences. Ultimately, baseline optimization serves both engines.
AI mentions yield zero revenue until they convert into sign-ups and paying customers. Track conversion rates per landing page in Google Analytics and scale content production around proven revenue-generating topics.
Focusing strictly on traffic volume leads to wasted effort; high-traffic articles with zero conversions generate no business value.
Configure GA4 Source/Medium reports alongside Google Tag Manager event tracking to evaluate post performance via dashboards like SEOgets.
"SEO Equals GEO" Is Only Half True
Tanya repeatedly asserted that SEO and GEO are virtually identical, citing two main arguments. First, Google's official AI search guide (May 15, 2026) states AI Overviews are built on core search ranking systems. Second, she cited data claiming a 63% overlap between ChatGPT citations and Google page-one results.
The 63% statistic originates from a Chatoptic study showing that 62% of top-ranking Google brands are mentioned in ChatGPT. However, this study evaluated brand name mentions across a small sample (15 brands across 5 categories), not specific URL citations. The correlation between Google rank position and ChatGPT placement was just 0.034—virtually zero.
When measuring specific page URL citations, overlap drops significantly. An Ahrefs study across 15,000 long-tail queries revealed:
Google AI Overviews closely track traditional search rankings, whereas standalone models like ChatGPT parse citations independently. Comparing citation criteria highlights key differences:
| Metric Measured | Share | Sample |
|---|---|---|
| Google Page 1 brands mentioned in ChatGPT | 62% | 15 Brands / 5 Categories |
| URLs cited by ChatGPT ranking in Google Top 10 | 8.0% | 15,000 Long-Tail Queries |
| URLs cited by Google AI Overview ranking in Top 10 | 76% | 15,000 Long-Tail Queries |
This data explains her playbook architecture: Steps 4 and 5 focus almost entirely on off-page digital PR. While marketed as "SEO equals GEO," practical execution relies on acquiring external third-party citations rather than traditional on-site rank building alone.
Data in this section reflects independent research compiled by Xiaohu Breakdown to cross-check claims from the podcast.
Three Wasted Efforts in AI Optimization
Tanya explicitly warned against three common practices: two waste time, while the third carries severe platform penalties.
An llms.txtA proposed root-directory text file designed to guide AI crawlers on site structure. Not officially supported by major LLMs. file is a proposed root-directory text file intended for LLMs. An Ahrefs audit of 137,000 websites revealed that 97% of llms.txt files were never crawled by any bot. Of the bots that did crawl them, 77% were SEO scrapers rather than AI models. Out of 62,100 AI bot requests, only 84 specifically targeted llms.txt (0.1%).
Google's John Mueller compared llms.txt to deprecated keyword meta tags. Similarly, creating separate Markdown files for blog posts provides no indexing advantage and wastes effort.
Technical optimization alone (site speed and clean code) cannot substitute for interlinking, external backlinks, and BOFU content targeting.
Technical crawlability is merely the first barrier; structure and authority constitute the remaining layers.
Tactics involving exact-match review domains ("product+review.com") filled with self-generated praise carry significant risk. While short-term AI indexation may occur, search engines aggressively penalize network manipulation. Furthermore, publishing false negative reviews of competitors incurs severe legal liability.
Exact-match review domains are heavily penalized by Google's anti-spam algorithms.
Avoid fake review networks; building sustainable brand presence requires legitimate customer reviews and earned citations.
Client Case Studies and Final Advice
Client metrics are self-reported by interviewees and unverified by third parties, though one example can be cross-checked online.
Searching "best AI proofreader" displays EditGPT adjacent to Grammarly—a company that raised ~$1B and acquired Superhuman—despite EditGPT operating as a bootstrapped team.
EditGPT's blog structure directly reflects this BOFU playbook, publishing comparison roundups such as "10 Best Grammarly Alternatives."
Her key takeaway: competitor scale is secondary once your GEO content pipeline is operational.
Progression of Mastery
SEO and GEO mastery unfolds across distinct layers of execution:
Her concluding recommendation focuses on incremental progress:
The only way to start is to start publishing.
Tanya van Gastel
Full Interview · Dual-Subtitle Video
Watch the full 53-minute interview below with embedded dual English/Chinese subtitles.
AI Recommendations Name Only Two or Three Products—If You're Not Named, You Don't Exist
Ranking on AI founder Tanya van Gastel details the complete GEO playbook—including a 6-step roadmap and 3 critical mistakes to avoid—in a single visual summary.
↓ One-page summary · Animated diagram below
Searchers previously evaluated ten blue links on Google. Today, they ask ChatGPT and receive a single answer naming two or three products—and stop searching. Securing recommendations within AI answers is known as Generative Engine Optimization (GEO). The same search intent leads to completely different outcomes across these eras.
→ Google returns 10 blue links
→ Clicks top result
→ Site offers an AI proofreading tool
→ Informational search converts into a user
→ AI explains concept directly
→ Interaction ends immediately
→ No links provided; none requested
→ Zero web traffic generated
AI-referred visitors demonstrate high commercial intent. Ahrefs data reveals that while AI search accounts for a small fraction of visits, it drives a major share of sign-ups. However, analytics dashboards conceal true impression volume behind three funnel filters.
Educational "What is X" content has been fully absorbed by LLMs. Focus exclusively on bottom-of-the-funnel queries searched by users evaluating purchases.
Best SEO tools
Ahrefs vs. SEMrush
Ahrefs alternatives
SEO tools buyer's guide
What is an SEO tool
How does SEO work
Consolidating her recommendations yields a 6-step operational workflow. Steps 1–3 focus on internal site setup, while Steps 4–5 cover off-page distribution omitted by most founders. Copyable prompts and outreach scripts are provided in the main text.
Tanya explicitly warned against three common practices: two waste time, while the third carries severe platform penalties.
Fixing technical SEO while ignoring content: Over-indexing on site speed without internal linking, external backlinks, or BOFU content targeting yields zero ranking results.
Buying "product+review.com" domains: Domain manipulation faces rapid search engine bans; false competitor reviews incur legal liability.
Data sourced from Ahrefs official blog (0.5% / 12.1% / 23x; 97% uncrawled). While Tanya stated "SEO equals GEO," empirical data shows a split: Google page-one brands have a 62% mention overlap in ChatGPT (Chatoptic, 15 brands), but only 8% of URLs cited by ChatGPT rank in Google's top 10 (Ahrefs, 15k queries). Her most effective tactics (Steps 4 and 5) focus on off-page distribution.
A ready buyer
AI proofreader?
on the spot
- × What is an SEO tool
- × How SEO works
Nobody clicks links.
Ahrefs vs SEMrush
Ahrefs alternatives
for buyer-intent queries
0.5% visits yielded
12.1% of sign-ups
"Sources"
Link insertion ~$150
have ~1% click-through
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